Comments on: The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/ A site for sore eyes. Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:19:12 +0000 hourly 1 By: Emergent Consciousness - baloney http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-18493 Emergent Consciousness - baloney Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:50:46 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-18493 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Emergent Consciousness - baloney100Pcunixposted 9 months ago To  set the stage, I quote from http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/t … ciousness/ , one of the tope Google results for the phrae:According to a materialist Cognitive Scientist, [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] Emergent Consciousness – baloney100Pcunixposted 9 months ago To  set the stage, I quote from http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/t … ciousness/ , one of the tope Google results for the phrae:According to a materialist Cognitive Scientist, [...]

]]> By: The Emergence of Consciousness - Religion and Philosophy -Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism, God, Universe, Science, Spirituality, Faith, Evidence - City-Data Forum http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-18215 The Emergence of Consciousness - Religion and Philosophy -Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism, God, Universe, Science, Spirituality, Faith, Evidence - City-Data Forum Wed, 11 May 2011 19:54:54 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-18215 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] The Emergence of Consciousness Let me begin by saying this isn't a debate thread. I am only trying to explain how the fields of Chaos and Complexity theory might give us a direction to look for understanding on how our neurons might give rise to consciousness. Admittedly, there is still a huge explanatory gap as to how consciousness arises from neurons. I don't have answers, but I am persuaded to believe that it is our neurons that give rise to consciousness, mainly due to what I know of cognitive neuroscience experiments and investigations into brain injuries. My educational background is in psychology and physics. I have thought a lot about how to begin this discussion, and I have decided to start by linking you to an essay that I feel is managable in length and complexity. I am sensitive to the fact that most people don't want to read anything that is tedious in length or so technical in language as to make it unreadable. Perhaps even this article has too much technical jargon. I think if you just skim over the words you don't understand, you'll still get the gist of the essay. I chose to begin with this link, because it says what I want to say, but better. If I didn't link to it, I'd come close to plagiarizing it by paraphrasing it paragraph by paragraph. So, here you go: The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] The Emergence of Consciousness Let me begin by saying this isn't a debate thread. I am only trying to explain how the fields of Chaos and Complexity theory might give us a direction to look for understanding on how our neurons might give rise to consciousness. Admittedly, there is still a huge explanatory gap as to how consciousness arises from neurons. I don't have answers, but I am persuaded to believe that it is our neurons that give rise to consciousness, mainly due to what I know of cognitive neuroscience experiments and investigations into brain injuries. My educational background is in psychology and physics. I have thought a lot about how to begin this discussion, and I have decided to start by linking you to an essay that I feel is managable in length and complexity. I am sensitive to the fact that most people don't want to read anything that is tedious in length or so technical in language as to make it unreadable. Perhaps even this article has too much technical jargon. I think if you just skim over the words you don't understand, you'll still get the gist of the essay. I chose to begin with this link, because it says what I want to say, but better. If I didn't link to it, I'd come close to plagiarizing it by paraphrasing it paragraph by paragraph. So, here you go: The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness [...]

]]> By: I've come to a conclusion on the nature of conciousness. http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-17529 I've come to a conclusion on the nature of conciousness. Sun, 02 Aug 2009 02:18:49 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-17529 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Originally Posted by edxmon link to where you got this? I wanna read the whole thing, kinda interesting This one looks interesting. http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/0...consciousness/ [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] Originally Posted by edxmon link to where you got this? I wanna read the whole thing, kinda interesting This one looks interesting. http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/0…consciousness/ [...]

]]> By: przemyslaw_zonik's Bookmarks on Delicious http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-17482 przemyslaw_zonik's Bookmarks on Delicious Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:35:36 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-17482 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness SAVE [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness SAVE [...]

]]> By: biotele http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-17445 biotele Sun, 01 Mar 2009 00:06:07 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-17445 Generally you take the right approach, everyone must adopt the complex system model because we have not fully understood the brain and the brain is a complex system. However, eventually, the complex system model, in my opinion, will fail and where it fails is the true beginning of the explanatory gap because what is in the domain of the brain is not in the domain of the mind. Yes it is true, chaos is a mechanism involved in the brain. Calcium channels exhibit chaotic oscillations. But chaotic systems in themselves are just that, systems. They will never explain consciousness. In Today's philosophy of consciousness when we talk of brain mechanisms, we are like cartographers of the 16th century, in the unknown regions we fancy fantastic beasts like dragons and mermaids. Let's get to google earth. meditate on this http://www.biotele.com/magenta.html Generally you take the right approach, everyone must adopt the complex system model because we have not fully understood the brain and the brain is a complex system. However, eventually, the complex system model, in my opinion, will fail and where it fails is the true beginning of the explanatory gap because what is in the domain of the brain is not in the domain of the mind.

Yes it is true, chaos is a mechanism involved in the brain. Calcium channels exhibit chaotic oscillations. But chaotic systems in themselves are just that, systems. They will never explain consciousness.

In Today’s philosophy of consciousness when we talk of brain mechanisms, we are like cartographers of the 16th century, in the unknown regions we fancy fantastic beasts like dragons and mermaids. Let’s get to google earth.

meditate on this

http://www.biotele.com/magenta.html

]]> By: Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Experience, Electricity and Consciousness http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-15756 Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Experience, Electricity and Consciousness Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:39:22 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-15756 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] by rcglinsk on Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:31 pm First let me define my terms.Experience: what you've been doing your whole life. Taking in the aroma of fresh coffee in the moring, feeling the heat flow into your chest, and feeling refreshed is an experience. Electricity: for these purposes I mean the electric currents that flow from neuron to neuron in the brain and nerves. Consciousness: The conceptual relationship between a "soul" and experience. I bet we've all seen the question "what is the nature of consciousness?" I've always thought that was an odd question. It seems to assume humans are all stuck in the Matrix, that a small part of our brain exists inside the rest and is given inputs. I imagine a child watching a TV that displays what our eyes see, with headphones pumping what our ears hear, various needles to prod and simulate touch etc. Couldn't our brain itself be that little kid in the matrix? Perhaps the experience of pain is directly and without intermediary caused by electricity. So the reason people incapable of crying are also incapable of feeling terribly sad is that sadness literally is puffing cheeks, swelling eyelids and the various electric currents we normally only associate with it. Our experiences are simply what it's like when the currents flow in particular ways. I didn't make this idea up, I just like it. Here's a link to the article I originally read.http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/t ... ciousness/ [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] by rcglinsk on Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:31 pm First let me define my terms.Experience: what you’ve been doing your whole life. Taking in the aroma of fresh coffee in the moring, feeling the heat flow into your chest, and feeling refreshed is an experience. Electricity: for these purposes I mean the electric currents that flow from neuron to neuron in the brain and nerves. Consciousness: The conceptual relationship between a "soul" and experience. I bet we’ve all seen the question "what is the nature of consciousness?" I’ve always thought that was an odd question. It seems to assume humans are all stuck in the Matrix, that a small part of our brain exists inside the rest and is given inputs. I imagine a child watching a TV that displays what our eyes see, with headphones pumping what our ears hear, various needles to prod and simulate touch etc. Couldn’t our brain itself be that little kid in the matrix? Perhaps the experience of pain is directly and without intermediary caused by electricity. So the reason people incapable of crying are also incapable of feeling terribly sad is that sadness literally is puffing cheeks, swelling eyelids and the various electric currents we normally only associate with it. Our experiences are simply what it’s like when the currents flow in particular ways. I didn’t make this idea up, I just like it. Here’s a link to the article I originally read.http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/t … ciousness/ [...]

]]> By: Nikt/Nobody (P. Zonik) http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-15671 Nikt/Nobody (P. Zonik) Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:50:35 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-15671 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness [...]

]]> By: Junjun.com http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-15305 Junjun.com Mon, 13 Oct 2008 05:23:13 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-15305 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] selection. I'll be back tomorrow night to toss it around, and to bring up Tweedle's ideas, too. The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness CONSCIOUSNESS: Chaotic and Strangely Attractive Human Values as Strange Attractors: Coevolution [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] selection. I’ll be back tomorrow night to toss it around, and to bring up Tweedle’s ideas, too. The Complex Mind: Ideas on Emergent Consciousness CONSCIOUSNESS: Chaotic and Strangely Attractive Human Values as Strange Attractors: Coevolution [...]

]]> By: Your page is now on StumbleUpon! http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-13628 Your page is now on StumbleUpon! Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:23:49 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-13628 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Your page is on StumbleUpon [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] Your page is on StumbleUpon [...]

]]> By: Lusidvicel http://total.eclipse.co.il/2006/05/05/the-complex-mind-ideas-on-emergent-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-7905 Lusidvicel Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:00:18 +0000 http://total.eclipse.co.il/?p=28#comment-7905 Hello, i love total.eclipse.co.il! Let me in, please :) Hello, i love total.eclipse.co.il! Let me in, please :)

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